Advanced Game play and Development Mod (Is Closeing)

[b2bomber]

Were sorry but we are closing.

[shadowzuziz]

its a pretty good idea and im intreseted good luck with this mod

[admntrs]

I can appreciate your ideas to create a more realistic game environment. However based on my very limited knowledge of scripting/game engines etc. this is not an idea for a mod. Rather it is a concept idea for a whole new game. I know it has been said repeatedly the game was not designed to be 1st person, even on a high end system. I also think 'advanced game physics' exceeds the current capabilities of this game. I am sure mod creators would agree that the majority of your ideas are simply too complex to be added to this game. Personally I think there are mods out there and ones in development taht bring much needed realism to the game, and it is somewhat unnessecary to go to such lengths to create such a mod. But that being said, maybe you feel capable to undertake such a mod. Anyway that's my two cents. Bon chance

[Xplorer4x4]

You barley seem to know your way around a PC, so Im guessing this is just ideas for other and not something your actually going to work on?

[b2bomber]

You barley seem to know your way around a PC, so Im guessing this is just ideas for other and not something your actually going to work on?

I know a good a bit i have built my own rig that i am currently using right now when i was 11. Now I am not so familiar with emergency an actual game programing but i do a bit of 3d modeling and am currently taking C++ classes (not saying i am going to be a developer right out, I have a lot to learn but I will through experience). but your right if I where to do the mod I would not work so much with the scripting and would look for a couple of scripters but do more of the modeling and be in charge of the operation.

[Kookas]

Simply impossible unless you're doing this by creating a whole new game, and even then it will take years of work - and that's with a team of developers with decades of experience. Infact, chances are that even then, to get an accurate realtime simulation of true structure physics amongst other things would probably be quite CPU intensive. However, the rest is definitely possible, but only through a brand new game.

[b2bomber]

Simply impossible unless you're doing this by creating a whole new game, and even then it will take years of work - and that's with a team of developers with decades of experience. Infact, chances are that even then, to get an accurate realtime simulation of true structure physics amongst other things would probably be quite CPU intensive. However, the rest is definitely possible, but only through a brand new game.

lo,l I guess I am just years ahead of my time.

[Ray the Wise]

You barley seem to know your way around a PC, so Im guessing this is just ideas for other and not something your actually going to work on?

Please don't mention barley. Please. I must be intolerant or something, every time I eat something with barley in it, I get a very bad case of the sh... the runs. I mean, it's a good thing I've got that thing at home that the French call a bidet (but which I prefer to call a crotch rinser) because it's brutal when it happens.

-Ray

[admntrs]

You barley seem to know your way around a PC, so Im guessing this is just ideas for other and not something your actually going to work on?

And you 'barley' seem to know how to spell. No offence. And I love your mods

[Alexx12]

Most of the listed suggestions are impossible in Em4.

Different materials.... In Em4 people inside the fireing house usually even dont get injured.

Em3-winterberg includes:

-time set control

-"stop all the fires" button.

AFAIR, in Em4-winterberg was allowed to make any accident by pushing the button

The only thing I really need: limited water tanks somwhere else then in Winterberg

[TacticalRooster22]

Good luck trying to do all this! Very cool idea though, especially the 1st person stuff.

[billyfromhill]

If you're thinking of starting any sort of mod I would hold off because Emergency 2012 is just around the corner. I would wait and see what E2012 brings before starting anything for EM4.

[b2bomber]

heres just a basic concept idea for the advanced physics system. The idea is that when a fire comes up, the game takes structures that are on fire and inserts a skeleton made up of objects that use the traditional physics system in place and each object can individually be effected by the fire. and just like in real fires the wood or what ever can be fuel for a certain amount of time before its melted and fail, turned to ash stuff like that. causing the structures to become unstable and collapse.

Take for example the images below...

-Take these individual pieces

concept 2x4 Lumber sizes (Remember very low poly parts)

I-beams

+ note more pieces to come (drywall, Lumber sizes, pipes, floor board, etc.)

-And cluster them Into Structural pieces like this... (structures are from sketch up warehouse but they are just there to try to give concept)

Open for any thought, Ideas, Comments, complaints, the whole shebang.

[Kookas]

Sketchup models are all good and well, but they will not get you the game you want. Neither will "classes in C++", which usually only teach you the basics anyway. Trust me when I say that this will not succeed. It would be difficult enough trying to make a new game like this, nevermind creating it for Emergency 4, and using .scripts too... it just won't happen. It's the harsh reality. You can go ahead and try, but it will be wasted time.

[MikeyPI]

And I thought I was friggin pessimstic, some of his ideas can theoretically be added to the game it's self in the core. Would they probrably be a massive overbuden and make it glitchy? Absolutely, if it didnt totally CTD, but ya know things are "impossible" only as long as nobody knows how to do em=)Some of it would work in theory though.

[b2bomber]

I kind of am going back and forth on this. Kookas I completely believe you. the more I think about it it does sound unrealistic. I am going to let the idea run for a couple more days and figure out a weather i want to try something a lot simpler than what i am suggesting but still kind of doing the same thing or to just drop the whole thing. BIllyfromhill also proves a point about em5 coming out. But for that so far I haven't seen much new from the screenshots and videos. same game different missions. Now I am not saying i am going to kill idea yet but i am going to throughly think about if there are simpler "Possible ways of " doing this mod and if it is practical.

[Kookas]

And I thought I was friggin pessimstic, some of his ideas can theoretically be added to the game it's self in the core. Would they probrably be a massive overbuden and make it glitchy? Absolutely, if it didnt totally CTD, but ya know things are "impossible" only as long as nobody knows how to do em=)Some of it would work in theory though.

Well some of it is possible, some of it very easy even, but the thing is that these expectations are the expectations of someone who overestimates a game's engine. Calculated on-the-fly structure physics for example. However, you might be able to get away with pre-rendered animations of structure damage/collapse (which would be easily made using a modelling tool that has a physics engine, such as Blender). Then you could possibly script it so that rescue units can bury and retrieve trapped civilians (would be relatively simple). That is assuming, however, you can give a building animations and change them in scripts. If you can do that, however, you're all set, I guess..

[MikeyPI]

Actually bud, EM4 has pretty good *drop* phyasics behind it already, you don't even have to animate a falling object unless you demand a specific ending position for the object in question, while tampering with a few models I inadvertently made the game drop them in the editor and tbh it was actually quite pretty how they fell.. Assuing of course you're not concerned with daminging said object as it is. Hoppah made me test his crane extensively for him and my fav hobby was tractor tossing, there was a specific location with a tractor that no matter how you tried to set it down it alwasys "dropped" it and she'd fall like a structure would, very haphazardly. In the end I agree most of what he desires in this aspect of the concept would work easier in a mission-based scenario.. In freeplay some of it is just too complicated to ask to be repeatedly calculated real-time.

I would suggest taking the "concepts" you've come up with and scaling them back, do one thing at a time and see how far you can go with it, I've came up with some concepts that work, some that failed miserably, it all depends on what your tolerances are for imperfections because as Kook said, the game's engine does have her limits, and they'll only be pushed so far before they start to become unstable or flat out fail.

On an added note IF they do come out with this new EM high hopes they fixed the friggin mem bleed issue, because EM4's bleed is largely the reason why alotta things flunk the testing phase. As she stands now it tends to work okey with a "timed" event via script, too many "Constant" checking scripts in freeplay, or worse constantly loaded scripts in freeplay and she crashes from the bleed. Some people will notice this when they play Multiplayer, play long enough it'll get buggy and enevitably hit an unrecoverable boo boo.

[Xplorer4x4]

I know a good a bit i have built my own rig that i am currently using right now when i was 11.

Not being smart but I would think some one who knows enough to build a PC, granted it doesnt take rocket science, and knows some basic C++ would understand the difference between a 32 bit and 64 bit os directory structure in windows.

Now I am not so familiar with emergency an actual game programing but i do a bit of 3d modeling and am currently taking C++ classes

And thats a problem to. I recently looked in to the CrosixTH project which is a new open source remake of a classic Dos based PC Gamed Theme Hospital.

Please don't mention barley. Please. I must be intolerant or something, every time I eat something with barley in it, I get a very bad case of the sh... the runs. I mean, it's a good thing I've got that thing at home that the French call a bidet (but which I prefer to call a crotch rinser) because it's brutal when it happens.

-Ray

Sorry to say, but spelling mistake or not, that was lame.

And you 'barley' seem to know how to spell. No offence. And I love your mods

Thank firefox spell checker Btw you dont have to use img tags for smileys if you just hit the smiley it will injext something like : lol:(no space) in your post and they will show up automatically.

heres just a basic concept idea for the advanced physics system. The idea is that when a fire comes up, the game takes structures that are on fire and inserts a skeleton made up of objects that use the traditional physics system in place and each object can individually be effected by the fire. and just like in real fires the wood or what ever can be fuel for a certain amount of time before its melted and fail, turned to ash stuff like that. causing the structures to become unstable and collapse.

This aint GTA IV sadly, and even then something like this would be very hard on the CPU.

Take for example the images below...

Great models but I hope you know how to make real 3D models, not drawings. SKP models, when converted to soemthing like 3DS, skyrocket in polygon count. Thats might be fine for GTA IV, but I believe EM4 maxes at about 10,000 polygons a model. Ideally though I think people try to max out at about 5,000 for the most part. Your best to pick up zmodeler2 and start learning that. You can use the free version but it wont export as v3o.

[b2bomber]

Not being smart but I would think some one who knows enough to build a PC, granted it doesnt take rocket science, and knows some basic C++ would understand the difference between a 32 bit and 64 bit os directory structure in windows.

And thats a problem to. I recently looked in to the CrosixTH project which is a new open source remake of a classic Dos based PC Gamed Theme Hospital.

Sorry to say, but spelling mistake or not, that was lame.

Thank firefox spell checker Btw you dont have to use img tags for smileys if you just hit the smiley it will injext something like : lol:(no space) in your post and they will show up automatically.

This aint GTA IV sadly, and even then something like this would be very hard on the CPU.

Great models but I hope you know how to make real 3D models, not drawings. SKP models, when converted to soemthing like 3DS, skyrocket in polygon count. Thats might be fine for GTA IV, but I believe EM4 maxes at about 10,000 polygons a model. Ideally though I think people try to max out at about 5,000 for the most part. Your best to pick up zmodeler2 and start learning that. You can use the free version but it wont export as v3o.

( looking into getting people to try to convert .3ds for me to a z-modeler file to edit)

Yea, I have been playing around with z-modeler. And like I said if I get this going Idk if I can do all of it but I think I can do a bit Hopefully of each. I have played around with EM4 editor and messed with some scrips people have made as well as the games basic config files stuff like that (Minor compared to what your saying). But If I get it going Like I said I will probably need a scripting team (2-3 peeps). My knowledge is completely inferior to one of a computer scientist or a lot of other people when it comes to this stuff. Its hard Because I kind of have the vision but not all the knowledge. I want to try to do some of this and hopefully learn a lot threw the experience.

[MikeyPI]

It isnt really too "genius" level stuff to do scripting, no more than speaking another language is... Subsequently why Ive failed so wonderously as a scripter, I can create the theoretical concepts but actually writing the lines of code surpasses my abililties (syntax errors eat me alive). A script is actually very simple in what she does until you start getting into the dynamic processes (IE it has to try to place it's self real-time, then you're going to have to do some tough mathematics work to make that work *see LA Mod Fed sniper* But when it comes to normal scripts, you have he Conditions (if X is present and has object Y assigned) Then the Functions you wish her to do (empty car and connect the hoses or whatever), then at the end you tell it to either keep running if it's a constant event, or let it die if it's a one-timer..

Scripting is just very tedius and requires a sharp eye for details one little ; ] { } / missing from the thing and it simply won't work. Otherwise it tends to be fairly straightforward for the most part, the tedius aspect is why most people can't/won't script. I can mod em, I can read em... but god help me in trying to write one=) If only the lovely designers of this game had put in a "scripting utility" that could assemble the code properly for you, but few games have ever included such a toy, "Starcraft" (yes an older game) has the best example of such a tool that is VERY user-friendly.

[Kookas]

Well I like your optimistic thinking Mikey, but unfortunately it is simply not efficient, even if Emergency 4 does happen to have fairly nice simulation of gravity and physical collisions. It would probably be alot more CPU-friendly and better looking to pre-render the structure damage and collapse to an animation. You have to remember that there are limits set by hardware as well as the software - games work on a collaboration of hardware and software, remember.

[MikeyPI]

Ty for applaudng my optimism, in this subject there is indeed some, from the tractor incident she actually behaved pretty good on collisions, the only exception was people, but other static objects such as trees and guard rails interfered with the way the tractor proceeded on it's tumble, when it hit the guard rail it rolled OVER it, it didnt just pass through it or hop over it on the stationary axis she was sliding on prior to striking it. Animations simply put just are massively complex, the more you wish it to do, the larger the file can become. For example the Helicopters aimation set adds massively to the size of the models.

The LAPD Helo herself: 39KB, the Rotor Assembly: 1.5MB give or take.... Do that with enough objects and you'll see very quickly they become pretty heavy, the way animations have to be done because well, we lack the software they had the luxury of to create said animations, kinda limits our options. Our animations more or less dupe ev moving vert/polygon for each frame as she proceeds, it adds rapidly to the load on a cpu. A relatively simple horiz drop alone wouldnt hurt too much, but bear in mind that ev "building" or whatever you have present that has these even while the anim isnt active she's still got the same weight on the CPU regardless to if the anim is goin or not.

As a working theory I'd say it would be worth the effort to try both on a relatively simple "drop" construction, like a mission-based construction site collapse, see what the anim does vs the standard physics... In freeplay depending on how many structures were present the anims would overload the CPU more likely than not. Remember that I am not a game programmer but I do alotta these types of goodies for this particular game, so I know the system well for doing things such as animations, and she's not the most efficient process around unfortunately, especially if you get into really complex requests in the animation string.

[b2bomber]

Looking for someones help who has a full version of z-modeler. If anyone can convert some files for me it would be greatly appreciated! this will hopefully be a one time thing. PM if you would like to help.

[Ale]

Looking forward to this

You can really do it? It looks like it is difficult