MikeyPI

That's the primary issue with the concept of distinguishing them.  What exactly does it take to constitute an "original" work vs a submod of any one, or multiple modifications?  The category for "original" is easy enough to figure out, it's the kitbashed mods made up of multiple modification's pieces and/or the ones based mostly on other pieces that are much harder to define at which point they become unique vs submod of one or more pre-existing mods.  If it is more than one mod mashed up, which one is the one which gets credit as being the mod that it is a "submod" of?  These types of things are hard to figure out and distinguish in a concise, clear-cut way that everyone can understand and recognize.

There was some blow-back for the concepts addition, but for the most part that went smooth enough mainly because the criteria for moving on up to the mods section was very straightforward.  In this instance there are several bases to cover which is where the problem lies and will certainly ruffle feathers along the way in trying to define the different "tiers" of any specific mods.  It's a tougher one to implement because of the many portions in-between really, I think most would agree a straight reskin of X mod is a sub-mod, but it's the ones that are either mixed components of other mods, or have some changes, at what point do they get separated?  That's the issue I see anyway.

Best guess, probably related to the upgrade to win10 vs. your video card driver not being fully supported/compatible (yet) your driver for the vid card was from "Driver Date/Size: 7/16/2015". Check to see if they have released updated drivers for  the vid card that are specifically for win10 instead of your previous OS version.  To me if you're seeing no other faults in the logfile, its probably related to a problem with the drivers vs win10.

Just to add to this.

 

Reskins aren't going to kill this community off as most people seem to think, it's reusing the same mod (in this case the Mayberry one) over and over with different skins and no new features which will do it. But I do agree with what you guys have said, a reskin is not brand new mod, it is just new textures and should be called a submod to which ever one it used as a base.

 

Also Corsair, polygons aren't always the best. Especially when you don't have a very good computer as they tend to cause alot of lag when there are several vehicles on scene. If I remember correctly the guy who made the Mayberry mod made it like that because he had a crap computer at the time so he couldn't make it super realistic and 200+ lights on every vehicle. As I've said to others, if you don't like something a mod creator has done don't snub it because of a few bits you don't agree with... Just change bits to how you want/like them, that is what I've done on a few mods I play.

I don't believe most (there are a few out there who do) think reskins are going to kill the community.  I do believe that selling them as full-blown modifications is a bit misleading though and tend to agree with others that have stated that it doesnt give the credit due to the original authors of the stuff.  You have to learn somewhere, and for most people (even the advanced ones) they started out doing similar things and evolved their skills.  That is ultimately what will kill the community, if people are just contented to keep re-using the same stuff over and over again it will eventually get worn out and dull, no matter how you repaint or re-light it.  People have to try to evolve and learn more advanced skills to replace older more advanced modders as they move on (in any community they always do eventually outgrow doing it, this one is no different).  Without advanced people to replace the ones that move on, it will be nothing but the same old same over and over and that will make the community stale. Mashing up pieces of the existing mods will eventually get old too, no different than using the same core mod over again, you can only take the pieces so many times and mash them together before they'll get worn out too.  

So imo to keep things fresh it will require people to evolve beyond just mash-ups and reskins, but that is up to those people to try to evolve to that point.  Starting on the reskins and mash-ups is where most people start out in modding, so I can't say that I feel it's wrong.  But to claim that mashing or reskins is the same as the original guys who did the work you're using as a base is in my view taking a bit more credit for the time/effort than really is involved.  To me, those type of mods are sub-mods off the original content.  Hopefully more people will work towards advancing their skills, rather than staying at the same skill levels, most are not going to excel at all the required skills for a full-blown mod, but that doesnt mean you can't start trying to do your own content in the form of new scripts or model works.

Polygonal lighting and excessive coronas does lead to performance problems, even on high-powered computers, which is why some mods don't make excessive use of them.  If it were just one model visible at a time in this game it wouldnt cause a problem, but because there can be 10+ units on scene at a time it kind of has to be weighed into it when lighting stuff.  One single model overlit doesnt wipe out performance (for most machines) but when you multiply them it starts to bog the engine of this game, regardless of your computer specs it ultimately boils down to the engine the game uses, which was not intended to support excessive "realistic" lighting.  Play much older games than this one and you'll notice the same problems, esp. if the game you run has performance problems built-in from the original devs, the game will still bog or bleed memory and eventually crash.  EM4 is one of those games that has the optimization problems and a bleed, so no matter how powerful the machine, eventually it still will bog it's self down regardless of what we do, mods do have the ability to speed up that flaw though and cause the crashes sooner.

Your intentions were not pointless, your intent was to share your perspective and what you view going on in the community, and ultimately what you feel would help improve it.  That is not pointless by any stretch of the imagination.  Truth of the matter it is quite valuable to express your views in a respectful manner.  Had you just been "trolling" in your statement, it would be different, but you were expressing your opinion.  I responded to the portions that I see from a different perspective, and you're willing to consider it.  I share some of your sentiments, but these areas were where we don't quite see it the same are what I commented on.  The fact you're willing to see my perspective speaks to your character, that isnt pointless either.

I appreciate your intentions, I just wished to respond to the points that I did, I believe somewhere between the extreme of "mine! nobody touch" and "do whatever" is where we should be as a community, but that isnt for me as an individual to make that choice.  The passion to want to do this involves recognition, be it a reskinner, a modeler, a scripter, a lighter, everyone does this and is "paid" in the form of recognition, when that recognition is denied it offends the people who do the work (realistically, since I do it myself I understand why).  The alternative would be to move onto other things, or to go for-profit instead similar to FSX or TS and similar games, and honestly that would be horrible for the community, and something I myself don't want to see happen.  

Take care, as I said earlier you have good intentions, I just wanted to share my perspective being one of the people who come from a different view, there is nothing wrong with sharing your views with others as long as the discussion can take place civilly.

Shared values, shared interests, and most importantly, shared passion.

 

For example, someone creates a dodge charger model for their mod. The mod is released, and another modder uses that same model for their mod, and they forget, or maybe just don't bother to credit the original creater.

 

The creater then, say, revokes their mod release due to this, because it is "their model", or "their" car. Let me spell this out in the simplest way I can; the car is not yours. The model, it isn't yours. It is dodges model, it is dodge's car. You didn't design the vehicle from scratch, spend hours on end creating a new concept car. What you did, was exactly what you were angry about: lack of credit for another's work. If it was truly all that important to people, you'd be crediting chevrolet, and lambo, and BMW, and so on. The fact that you don't proves that it doesn't really matter to you, it's just selfishness.

The reason this community is failing is the fact that we've forgotten what is important to it. Not backstabbing, just so someone can get their way. Not punishing, because someone didn't put a creators name on everything. A passion for the topic, of which this forum stands upon.

I write this, not for personal gain, or an attempt to persuade. I'd like this to just help be a guidance to a friendlier forum, with the same passion that started it off.

- ~D.~

I just shortened your post to the parts I wanted to respond to, for the most part I have no issues with your comments but these portions I have to speak on.

Shared values: Sadly, for quite some time, it seems, most people do not share the same values, values for some are more flexible than others... Within my time here, many times I have had to take a hiatus due to real-world issues, thus making me be unable to view the forums for long stretches of time, I have seen the changes from a different perspective, because I saw these changes with large "gaps" between the time instead of slowly, methodically watching them shift.  And from my perspective in viewing it in this manner, the "community" as a whole has changed in it's core of how it works.  In some ways to the benefit of it, in some to the detriment of it.

The forgetting is easy to credit is an easy fix, and with how most people work today, quite common.  The problem to me is those who cannot be bothered.  That is quite wrong to take advantage of the work of others to your benefit and disregard their time.  Shows a lack of appreciation for their time, and most importantly energy, time that you did not have to invest because they did so themselves.

The creator's can do what they wish to do (even if I do not always agree with their choices), love it or leave it, it is not quite the same. I kinda get tired of explaining it, the original designers own the rights to the likeness, but no different than any other artistic work, be it a painting, clay model (sculpture) or drawing, the author of said drawing does have rights in the format of intellectual property protections.  While the artist does not own the original content, they own the artistic representation of it, such as the electronic model they create.  To fail to differentiate the two shows a lack of understanding in this regard. I do not take a chevrolet for example, and conceal the bowtie emblem, the vehicle name or brand when I design them, thus I am not omitting the credit of the original designers. An example of what you speak of would be for example, GTA where they replicate the likeness of the original content, but alter them just enough to claim they are not replicas, or a Chinese corporation replicating a ford F series and changing the emblem/name.  That is what you describe, not what happens in creating a replica model, there is a big difference between the two.

To minimize my time and my effort, is frankly offensive, truth is I can take my very same works I offer for free to this community, and place them on a site which sells 3D models and profit from them instead of providing them free to this community.  When people choose to try to minimize my time invested and my perspective, it frankly gives me little incentive to wish to continue to provide my free time to this hobby, since it quite clearly when such statements are made is not appreciated.  The passion to make things is what I enjoy, being put in a position to have to defend my feelings since I, myself invest that time is the part I do not enjoy.  If someone takes the time to make these things, they too would understand the time invested and would understand why you would want recognition of that time too.  Especially when taken into context of the fact many do this aspect of this hobby for-profit instead of providing it to free. (see Flight Simulator/Train Simulator/amongst others)... Those people get their "appreciation" in the form of a paycheck, yet wanting recognition somehow makes me the problem, that I honestly don't get.

Backstabbing is a problem, when people intentionally screw one another over, it again points to the lack of shared "values" you referenced earlier, it's a shame but it does happen.  Usually for exactly what you said, to get their way.

Punishment is how people is kept in line, do I feel some people take it to extremes? Yes, they do, but sometimes people refuse to be reasonable with one another, that cuts both ways from the offender and the victims.. Someone has to mediate those situations, and sometimes that requires punishment.  If you want a "wild west" feel, this community was never that way, nor would it function if it was, it would in fact "fail" as you've claimed it is.

This community was much different in the past than it is now, it will never be what it was in the past. That is a fact of life, as time goes on things change, people change, but if people want to be friendlier they must learn to understand one another.  If you don't understand the other side of an argument, you can never appreciate their feelings, nor can you actually mediate the issue out.  If you look at it from a single perspective, you will always be firmly stuck to your "side" and will never be willing to compromise. Compromise and respect, is what ultimately leads to a "friendlier" more helpful forum.

There was no reason to take action against the user "Frozenone-94", he has done nothing wrong to justify an action to be taken against him, if nothing wrong is done we will not take an action against a user.  I have checked the logs of actions and no staff has altered his topics.  The user in question would be the one responsible for removing the content of his topics, which is his right.  IMO it would have been better-served to either directly request removal of the content and/or to post an announcement as to why he was removing the projects, but that is more of a courtesy than a requirement.  To my knowledge, nobody in the staff knows the reasons for him seemingly abandoning the projects, but the state of his topics pretty much leads to the conclusion that he's done just that.

Well, to be honest with you there are pretty much two basic courses of action for you:  1). Try to learn to modify the game yourself.  2). Wait to see if anyone shows any interest in attempting to mod this game.  Love it or leave it, they did not provide enough documentation to really get cracking into thorough modding of this game, add into it the massive performance requirements to get good gameplay outta this game.  I can't say I'm shocked more modders arent chewing at the bit for this product.  To most of the modder community, they were promised a good deal, and found out that alotta what was promised just isnt there.  

The truth is that no game is a 100% guarantee of a proper modding community for it, even if software is included to make that process easier/the files are unlocked to be modified.  If people are not interested in taking their valued time and putting it into working on a game, they have a right to have their reasons, after all people are not currently paid to make these mods.  IMO it is unfair to expect people to modify a game, which for their reasons they do not wish to do (be it time constraints limiting their ability to learn the new systems, disappointment with the game in general, or lack of access to required programs/apps to work with this new system) to you, it is unfair that you don't have the mods you want, to me it's just as unfair to expect others to do what they do for their hobby in a way they don't wish to.  

Either you can try to learn the system which this game employs yourself, along with purchasing all required programs to make the resources it uses and see what you can do, or you will have to learn to be patient and hope someone finds the same appeal you do within this game, enough so that they wish to invest their time and money into making a proper mod for it.   Sorry to have to state the truth about it and I do feel bad for those who purchased EM5 expecting it to be a feeding frenzy, but for many many reasons most of the modding community just does not seem to want to get behind this game.

You are wrong actually, what happens is the old version installs the missing components which older software requires.  The "most current" version of DX is always displayed, but without having older directx installed, 9.0C for example, you cannot play older games out-of-the-box.  Take a brand new fresh from the factory pc running win Vista/7/8/8.1/10 and try to play an older game, and it will not be able to do it.  Then take that very same computer and run and install 9.0 and suddenly the very same computer that could not run the games, instantly can in spite of it still showing DX10/11 as it's dx version.  One of those things, kind of like the VB runtimes, even though you may have a newer version, sometimes you need things that are only found in an older version of the software, it doesnt replace the new files but only adds the older/obsolete files which were not included with the newer bundles.

I have had to do it myself with several Vistas, and 2 8.1's in order to make the older games run without problems.

Try reinstalling an earlier version of Direct-X.. It is possible in the update it removed the DX dependencies the game uses and only has DX10 on your machine now.

http://forum.emergency-planet.com/files/file/613-microsoft-directx/

Please try to provide a directx log, so we can try to determine your problem.

Need the DX Diagnosis for the computer:

start>run>dxdiag

win8/10

Windows key+R>dxdiag

Save the information and attach it to a post.

 

When DXdiag finishes running press the "save all information" button, save it to your desktop. In the reply to this post you will see "more reply options" press that button, at the bottom of that screen you will see "attach files"

add your DX diag and add it to the posting so that it can be downloaded/viewed.

Please in the future do not double post, it is against the TOS.  I have merged your posts within this topic, if you wish to add further information to a post you may use the edit button found in the bottom right of the post you have made.

As to whether or not you can run it.. I cannot say since you have still failed to provide the DXdiagnosis from the machine in question.  You say you have had the drive replaced within the computer, chances are you had the drive replaced not with a clone of the original system drive, but a "brand new" installation of windows (whichever version you have since you did not provide the DX Diag).  When you clone an existing drive, everything that is on that drive will remain installed/functioning, when you get a brand new drive with a "clean" install of the operating system, you will lose all data from the original drive and basically be starting over.  Without the DX diag anyone who tried to help you would be just taking shots in the dark.

Well, here's the issues I see that prevent even trying to guess.

Need the DX Diagnosis for the computer:

start>run>dxdiag

win8/10

Windows key+R>dxdiag

Save the information and attach it to a post.

You've stated 

 

 

This game has worked perfectly fine fir me before so 

Did the game work perfectly fine with this particular machine or a previous machine you've had before?

If it is this machine that it did work with previously, what change(s) have you made recently to the machine that might be responsible for it not working anymore?

I know you wish to have help to resolve your problems you're experiencing, but we are not psychic and we cannot just "will" the information about your particulars into our heads to even stand a chance of telling you what exactly is going on within your system to explain why you've experienced problems and how they may potentially get resolved.  Please note: if this machine is an HP laptop there is likely to be nothing that can be done to assist you since HP's use custom drivers from HP instead of OEM hardware drivers, the HP drivers tend to be older, and have less compatibility compared to OEM drivers.

The mods which do not use the modinstaller for the most part are based on the LA mod for their "framework".  Some of those people will not create the icon for their modification, but will simply remove the original LA mod icon only, when this occurs it is pretty normal to see the green wrench (means there is no icon for the mod).  With that part of it out of the way we'll go onto installing these things, when you download the ones which do not use the modinstaller you'll have to manually copy the "root" folder for the mod (should be the mod's name for that folder) into the installdir\mods\ folder where you would find the LA mod and other modinstaller mods at.  If when you open the download these other mods and you open the folder to find many folders like Audio: Lang: Maps: Models: Scripts: etc, then unfortunately that individual that made the mod did not include the root-directory for the mod.  What that means for you is that you will have to manually create a folder for the mod to be put into.  The name isnt important, the game gets the information for the mod from the files included.  Ensure that the mod folder has all these subcats, some may have forgotten to have the "structure" saved in the rar file for the mod, without the structure being in the right places you'd have problems with it not loading the resources.

Hopefully this helps. Goodluck.

Mouse over the top-right corner of a category (blue bar @ the top of them) and  you can minimize them with the - symbol that appears, hit the + symbol to make it visible once again... Only works for whole cats, not individual subcats, but it's better than nothing.

The macro is incompatible with the latest offices, perhaps hoopah will update it''s compatibility for them one of these days, but that's why you're experiencing that error.

1). I've never done them as separate parts, tbh I'm not certain the game could interpret that correctly, but it is worth a shot in trying it to see what would happen.  All of my attempts have always been with the blades in the same animation.

2). Why exactly would it not work on your computer?   Describe what the issue(s) were in order to try to resolve them gotta know more than it would not work.. There are many reasons why it would not work, mostly related to "security" settings such as that you have to enable macros and permit the macro to run, along with having an appropriate version of office (certain versions do not run the macro correctly, guess different coding was in effect for those).

I have windows 8.1, if not for the way they "pushed" 10 I might've tried it, but given that whole debacle of hiding it in an update that you could not just make go away with ease, I passed on win10.  Essentially handsup is correct, if you've got win7 and are in love with it, there isnt much incentive to be one of the guinea pigs for their windows 8 v2.  If you've got 8 or 8.1 and wanna be a guinea pig, you're potentially gaining some problems but more likely than not will probably have very little change for your experience, other than some UI changes (none of which I use or care about, which makes me not wish to upgrade).   Truth is, 8.1 is pretty stable and the UI issues can be sorted out with 3rd party or adjusting the system yourself, so for me being an old-school user I have no incentive to want to be the guinea pig on 10.

As to whether or not it will run em4/5.... I'd be willing to bet the farm it will not have issues doing that, aside from a "vanilla" install out-of-the-box.. Upgrading your existing dependencies are in place, but as with any vista+ OS win10 will have the same problems running games as old as em4 without the dependencies added into it if it's a brand new clean install.  Though for the moment that isnt an issue since it's an "upgrade" for now.

The way I animate is in the V3O so I guess you'd have to either redo them or open the vmo and rename them (if possible).  I am not sure if vmo's are able to be altered after the fact since I don't do it that way=/

@ flynn that's kinda what we've been trying to do which has been an uphill battle from many users out there because we're enacting guidelines to try to prevent future problems.  Existing content has to be "grandfathered" in because let's face it, it isnt fair for someone who is gone to get in trouble for something that when they existed was not a problem.  As with anything when something becomes problematic, it has to be addressed, we're trying here but many of the community are making things more difficult than it has to be.

In a perfect world there would be some understanding and people would take the time to just sort out the permissions and credits, which takes way less time than making the content yourself, especially in a game such as this one where it's just so much you gotta have to make a proper mod.  Working together is very much a necessity with this game because of the vast quantity required, but alotta people have a free-for-all mentality going on and that's going to offend people in the process.  The community is about sharing but also appreciation, I think alotta the original people feel that their time/effort is not appreciated but more or less expected right now, and people with the extreme desire to do whatever they want is what bothers most of them.  It isnt that most don't wanna share and collaborate, but that they want some respect for their efforts taken in the form of permissions and appropriate credits.   As I said the copyright term is used in a broad stroke, but what exists is intellectual property because these are artistic works, no different than a painting or a sculpture would be considered under.  That being said, you are correct that the copyrighted authors of the likenesses that are replicated generally do not mind if you're not profiting off of their content.

That part of it seriously bothers me as well to be honest, if others are responsible for the bulk of your content, it certainly is unfair for you to profit off of their work, that is why I'm against the whole donations and ad revenues that many people are starting to get the idea of using too....  If I provide something for free to you, there is no ethical reason you should be attempting to profit from my effort.  If I'm giving it for free, you can either do the same or make it yourself if you want to profit from it.

Hopefully people can stop trying to make this issue so insanely extreme and calm down, get a bit more flexible on both sides of the extremes and find the middle ground again.  If everyone wants to keep being stupidly extreme about all of this nonsense then the rift will remain and nothing will change.  I for one am tired of going down this road time and time again and would like to move off of it.  I have far better things to do with my time than having to re-visit an issue that for the most part is pretty straightforward to understand and accept. 

For me personally, I really love to make the models, it's the part that I enjoy very much.  Pretty much the reason I still do what I do is for that reason.  I don't enjoy the way things are at this moment, and how things are playing out, I'd rather not have to worry about all this stuff and get to focus more of my time on the part I actually enjoy.

In regards to NYCERU copyright comments (off topic)

I completely agree with everything you've said, I do have to say that I don't agree with the deception you've suggested, yeah we used your stuff, I've held my hands up to that, I wasn't aware, my bad, I've already been speaking to you about resolving it and I really was hoping to just speak to you about it privately but itchboy has taken the opportunity to bring it up after I've been talking about only healing the community. So I didn't really want to speak about it, but I would hope that you'd realise, we've used a lot of stuff, from models to scripts from various sources and credited all of them, does it not strike you as odd that we would choose just you, the author of the Sierra (which I have since spoken to and he has given us permission) and a model from turbosquid, to "rip off". I understand the run in before and as I've explained this was solely to do with the tow trucks and was an understanding between ourselves and hoppah that was either misunderstood or just fell through. I really, really, really want to put all this behind us, like you say I had no knowledge of the usage of your stuff, raf is the modeler, but this boils down to bad communication within the team, that's our fault, I apologise again. But to think we would steal them, actively try and claim them as our own knowing that it'd be very easy to unravel is beyond me, but some people would have me down as a thief and that's up to them. I've spent the past month rectifying these issues best I can, not to just release in future, but to apologise to people we may have offended. But I need the community to know this isn't stealing, I mean mikey has been credited in every readme we've ever put out, sure back then you didn't need to specify what we were crediting authors for, but I knew that much of our mod relied heavily on his work, he's done so much for the community and I'm really grateful for that.

 

In terms of the community, I literally posted trying to help resolve this issue before it becomes an even bigger one. People seem to think its an us vs them kinda of deal, its really not. This community, all forums, all mods, only survives if we co-exist. We all break copyright, every single one of us, whether you're using models from another game, using logos of departments or even just car logos, it's all a violation. The only reason this game survived is because it was so open source, coupled with a community that provided for each other. This means yeah you'll get the basic reskin mod, but those mods can rise up into bigger things, but if you cull all of these attempts before anyone even had a chance, then that's when the community goes into decline. Less mods means less activity, less new things being added to the community collective. If anyone goes into this community with an ego, wanting, demanding that they be known for how good they are then thats when we have this issue. 

 

I feel I'm fighting a losing battle to keep the community I've spent a long time on in tact. There's a strong divide between those that can and those that can't and when you take away the nurturing element from this community it will just wither and die. 

In regards to the NYCERU

I never accused you of the deception, what I stated is a point-of-fact, when the previous issue occured Raf responded stating that it would be resolved and all the offending content would be removed, he knew well because Hoop stated clearly that all the content from NYC was to be removed.  He himself opted to not do this, which was where the deception part comes into play, that is where he himself ripped me off.  I took it on good faith, given his reputation that he would indeed resolve the situation being that my understanding at that time was that it was a misunderstanding.  When he failed to follow through with his own word to remove the offending content, that crossed the line to being intentional on his part.  As I said previously, you were perhaps just as much a victim as I was in that regard, I appreciate your apology regarding it, ultimately your part in it is to resolve the issue in the manner which we've discussed already in one of the two options I've granted to you, whichever way you want to go about it is ultimately up to you.  Being that you're the steward of sorts of those mods, you unfortunately have to clean up his mess as it were.  It sucks for you as much as me, but ultimately had he not played that game back then, it would have never have came back around in a new issue which was brought to the staff's attention, for your part in it I'm sorry that you have to address his mistakes, but part of being a community is resolving differences that may exist.  Ultimately this latest round can be traced back to Raf not following through on his word with the first incident, which unfortunately victimized both of us in the process.  You have had the best of intentions, but I'm sure you can see where the rub lies in it, when he went back on his word he crossed the line where he shouldnt have, and unfortunately since you're the active party for those mods you're stuck footing the bill to fix what he did.

As in regards to the community, as I stated myself, it is not that people seem to think it's an us vs them kind of deal.  Many of the players roaming about right now have their own vendettas and agendas against one person or group or another and want to exploit the tensions and situation going down to their own benefit.  It's working quite well as you can tell by the fact we've gotta keep going down these very same roads over and over again instead of people stating their peace and moving on.  We all do not hold copyrights on any of the assets, but what the original authors do have is Intellectual Property protection, as they are artistic works as such.  Love it, or leave it, the original people have to be respected in order for the community to co-exist.  Without new guys there will be no future, but without the guys making new content the old content recycled 3,000 times will in a matter of time get stale, just remember when the LA mod went free-to-use how great it was, and unfortunately how fast people got tired of the LA mod maps.  That is the fate that awaits if the community does not co-exist in a format which makes people who do take their time to make new things feel appreciated and respected.  

Who would want to create content for other's to abuse after all?  We all as modders do this for one because we enjoy doing the stuff, but we also do it for the recognition of the community in the form of them enjoying our works.  Part of that recognition has to include the respect and appreciation for the time/effort invested, even you have to admit you've put a great deal of time into your efforts, even if it was not modeling, even something like map making takes a great deal of time, but nobody in their right mind will be inclined to do such things if they know others will not only take their stuff, but in some instances claim it as their own.

The game it's self was easy to modify, which helped it's longevity, but people forget without people making the new scripts, functions, maps, models, that open nature of the game would get stale very fast.  That's the point I try to stress to people, while you and even I may disagree with some people who put their time into creating things, I still feel that it is only right to respect that they did put that time into it, and if they have caveats on how or when it should be used, then I should respect them, even if I don't agree with it.  As I've said before nobody has to release their works, that goes for original creators as well as reskinners, lately though there is a serious sense of entitlement and plenty of ego going around which is why we are where we are.

As I've said with the reskin mods, everyone has to start somewhere, but if you have basic reskin modders stomping on those who made the bases, or those who are making things, that will give those people no incentive to continue to provide, thus meaning nothing new added to the mix.  Which is really what keeps this game series going, without new features/maps/models this game gets quite repetitive and stale fast.  Where we are at now as a community is an impasse.  The original creators want to have the respect for their content and their conditions to use it, as it was previously in the community, while the reskinners want to be able to use anything and everything however they please, unless the community comes to a consensus on what is reasonable to end this impasse, it won't end.  Truth is, the number of people who've been outright culled is actually quite small, most of those parties were not as simple as they failed to credit (accidental) but the manner in which they responded to the issues, as I said before while I do not agree with some modders in how they handle issues that arise, it is ultimately their choices as it is their content as to what they wish to do in regards to it.  To undermine them and dismiss them because people want more content faster means you'll get more faster, but longevity will decline just as fast as nobody will work to improve the game further knowing that their work will not be respected as such.

We have these issues not for any simple reason as an ego, it's a nice line I'll give you that, but it's not really valid to most of the parties I've encountered on the orginal-content end.  What was a rude awakening to many of them in this affair is how few feel anymore that they deserve to have their wishes respected (whatever they may be).  That for me myself is offensive, it has nothing to do with my "ego" what so ever, but for the fact of how much time I did invest into what I've worked on, to know that as a community it is ok for others to just do with that effort what they will just for the sake of more content being available to them, speaks of the entitlement from that side and total disregard for my time invested.  It's quite disrespectful if that is how the community honestly feels, and when people dismiss my grievances in regard to my content that I put my effort into, it marginalizes my efforts and certainly makes me less inclined to give to this community.  There was a time this community was grateful for the effort put into new things, it seems as of late they just want it fast, however it comes to be in their hands isnt their concern, where they used to want people to "do it right"

More mods don't necessarily equate to more new things, repaint a vic 100 times it's still the same vic underneath.  It's the guys who are willing to take the time to make that new suburban or that new lightbar, or a whole new map or scripts that makes new things, the reskin mods have a great starting-point position and ultimately help those individuals learn, while also occupying the community while the new things are created, but without the balance and recognition for the time it takes and the effort those people put into those new things, they won't waste their time.  Sure, some of those reskin modders may grow to do new things, but then when the shoe is on the other foot and they're in the position of those that came before them, they'll see for themselves and suffer the same fate as those who went before them.

The only way this community will reconcile is to stop treating everything as a battle.  Realize that the original guys want the recognition and appreciation for their time/effort put into their works. how do they want that? For their wishes when it comes to their content to be respected, that means asking to use it if you want to release it to the public and crediting them... If you don't wanna go through that process then your mod should be kept private and not to be distributed if it's using their works.  The new guys that want to learn and be nurtured into learning the ropes, part of that is to respect the other side's wishes when it comes to their content, and you're less likely to have those guys being stand-offish with you. Don't demand that they give you what you want, you're not entitled to it and try to respect their time they've put into it so that you could have it available to use.  The sad truth is if people communicated more instead of showing total disregard for one another, there would be way less conflict than there is.  Most people don't want to give one another the time of day, which makes things escalate instead of de-escalate.

This is the issue with the community, I'm trying to put things behind all of us and work towards the greater good but once again another topic has descended into arguments.

The reason I left this site is purely this, I felt like there was too much tension, I didnt make another site, I didn't get an army of keyboard warriors, I literally just moved.

This whole model theft has been blown way out of proportion, yeah there were some things raf used without my knowledge but they were never stolen, if you'll actually check all of our readme a have always credited Mikey he's actually a nice guy who is easy to level with, hell after all of this he still spoke to me and we sorted things out. The problem now lies with members uninformed carrying on this saga.

I don't really care what you do, I just knew the itchboy before all of this, that was so eager to help others and didn't care about anything else, now it just seems like you've changed and you've even started hindering all the people you once helped.

Yeah reskins aren't the best, but so what? If someone wants to make a mod that someone else will enjoy too who cares how complex it is? That's just where egos come into it and a community run by egos will fall apart pretty quick.

Anyway thanks for dragging up the whole model thing once again it's always fun. I know there's too many minds that are already made up so this entire post is pretty much in vain, but you all really need to start rebuilding the community if it's going to survive.

Since my name has been thrown into this mix yet again I will go ahead and state my peace on this issue and hopefully it'll end here with it.

What I have noticed is that much of the tension that occurs here as of recent has came in the form of persons from the other english site roaming their way here with the explicit purposes of stirring the pot so to speak.  I know this because sadly for me, I've had to address it several times in recent weeks, which ultimately is not beneficial to the community and any potential "healing" that can take place.  Perhaps if people exercised the concept of "can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" things would be more amicable. For your part dyson, you are not one of those that seems to intend to stir the pot, others on the other hand have done just that in the process. People have their own agendas and I can tell you from long experience, many of them do not share the well-being of the community in mind.

To me with our issues that we encountered, the issues could have been addressed in a much more discreet manner (which would have suited everyone in the end I believe), unfortunately you made choices to make the issue quite public which propagated much of the tensions that are currently going on in this community.  While I cannot say you were aware of what Raf did do or did not do, he or someone else did ultimately take from my mod without permission and did so in a deceptive manner at best. I can say from what I was shown that it was in fact not a minor issue from my view, there were many models directly taken from my mod and altered to attempt to conceal where they originated, to me that is a pretty big deal considering the time I did put into those projects.  That being said, had we not had a previous misunderstanding which Hoppah addressed on my behalf stating very clearly and in concise terms that the content had to be removed it probably would not have been such a big deal to me either.  

Unfortunately, Hoopah did make it clear that the content from my NYC mod would have to be removed and Raf stated it would be removed per the request, but failed to actually follow through on his word does make what he did in fact a theft, not a misunderstanding.  Your culpability in the whole scenario as to how much you were aware of, as well as any potential part you had in the issues was debatable at best, especially considering that you yourself do not model, so chances are you never saw the wireframes to see they were in fact carbon copies of mine.  As such the only reason you had to have involvement was because of the fact you are the steward of those mods, which unfortunately makes you accountable to rectifying the situation we had.  You were not banned, nor actually warned as a result of any of this, nor should you have been given that there is no definitive tie to you and being directly responsible for the theft of that content.  Ultimately Raf should have owned up to that issue, it was taken on his good faith and his word that he resolved the problems the previous go-round we had, which he ultimately did not actually follow through on in the least.  That is what ultimately offended me more than anything, had it have been the first time we had any issues, it would not have bothered me as badly, but having the same issue crop up again when Raf assured it would be addressed was quite offensive and to be made into a villain when I in fact wronged in the first place was totally insane to me.  Perhaps you were a victim as well dyson, but that would be something to take up with Raf regarding, since he is the one who quite honestly lied to me as much as you.

I gave a fairly simple resolution to you, of which you can partake on either one of them to consider our situation resolved. The first being to remove all the offending content that was not from the LA mod but in fact came from the NYC mod, or alternatively to credit the materials from the NYC mod separately and with the caveat to contact me for permission to use it. If either of those steps are taken we would be perfectly fine and life would go on for my part in the crediting nightmare.  The content from LA I always let be out there just for ease of the fact that Hoop made the LA mod open to use by anyone, so that content is allowed to be used, NYC I did not make it free to use but simply required asking permission from me to use it, which most the time I permit.

Reskin mods do have their place in this community, they work as a great stop-gap between the new content created, as that takes a ton of time to do, especially when you have your life outside of this community to take into account.  Most of us have to work or goto school, on top of other personal obligations which limit our modding-time quite a bit.  Reskins work great to fill those voids between such steps forward in the format of new content, as well as giving new modders a venue to try to wade into the modding process.  To me though I have to be honest in that I miss the days when such reskin mods were classified as "sub-mods" of the original modification which they largely worked off of, since back then it was much clearer how much someone was actually responsible for vs how much was from the original people.  The problems we've had alot lately ultimately result from lax crediting processes by a good number of the modders in general, thus making it much harder for the reskinners to have proper accounting of the credits and who did what.

As an original content creator I can honestly say that for the most part what I find offensive more than anything is how people on both sides seem iron-willed to create the extremes of both sides of this argument instead of trying to see one another's perspectives and trying to find some understanding and more importantly respect for one another.  Fact is, the reskinners who wish to use the content out there would not have new content without the original guys taking the time to make it in the first place, the game would get very stale very fast as a result.  No matter how many times you respray a model, if it's unchanged it's still the exact same model as the one you've already seen countless times before.  To follow the wishes of these guys who are taking the time to make such content that you have access to because they do invest that time.  For some it's as simple as crediting them, for others they have more strict caveats, but if you want to release it for the public, you really should be following whatever these people deem.  If you don't want to have to worry about such hassles, the catch is that you'd do your project in private and could not distribute it... It's really that simple.

That being said though, original creators have to be willing to give a little bit in letting people use their stuff to start out.  We all started somewhere, and for most it was modifying other's works to learn the ropes, be it in this game or another game for most of us it's how we learned as well.  So there has to be some give to let people use the stuff to help them start their modding futures, that is one thing that several years ago made it quite trying to start out in modding this game.  A few years ago you did not have the luxury of so much content to source to kitbash together to make your own reskin mod, back then there was far less content and most of it was totally unavailable.  Now you have it out there with for the most part reasonable considerations to the original authors required to use them.  Please if you want to use other's stuff, including mine, take the time to credit them, and if they don't explicitly say "feel free to use it" ask them if you can use it in a project you intend to release.  It's a common courtesy and something quite honestly that has been forgotten and taken advantage of far too often in recent times.

Perhaps just perhaps if people were a little less extreme a bit more understanding of everyone things would calm down, but as I've said before many out there have their own vendettas and agendas they feel the need to pursue and are using such a time as this to their full exploitation.  What is really sad is that we as a community cannot see this conduct and clip it out.  If the community wants to be a community, healing starts from within, learn to be more understanding and ultimately more respectful, that goes for everyone out there... If everyone wants to be egotistical and selfish, then there is no point in calling it a community at all, Original creators need to be willing to help new guys start out, reskinners/new guys need to be willing to respect the guys  who make the content they themselves want to use.. If we can manage to get there perhaps the whole credit/permissions bs will calm down, if people continue to be unwilling to give and just want to take, then extremism will persist.

All you have to do is open the V3O in notepad, and change it to be Light_on and Light_off, once that is done the superstructure should function with the default hard-coded system then.  bindpose should have no bearing on the function of the animations, as long as the other two present are named properly and function properly as far as their animation frames go.

Well, these screens were a "sneak peek", I was going to credit the models when I'd showcase them, but well:

Trailer by SCS Software (18 Wheels of Steel)

Bridge and GMC Yukon XL by Terminal Reality (4x4 Evo 2)

About the trailers - yes, I am aiming to convert a bunch of them, along with some semis. I don't know if I'll release them publicly or will send them upon request to trustworthy people

I figured you would include them with the final product, but just in case you were unaware to do so I figured I'd let ya know. I recognized both projects, I too played the 18wos games and the other vehicle was converted to other games I've played myself (though better suited to em4 than them), even still remember to credit yourself for doing the conversion work as well within the documentation if you release them.  They may have been responsible for the original content, but you did take the time to convert em.

They look the same, The only difference is that mine don't have the first letter in caps)

 

Which is exactly your problem, it must be a verbatim match to the original in order for the game to recognize and use it.