Jakethejake

I just want to clarify that I am not asking anyone to release an unfinished product. I certainly understand and appreciate what these guys are trying to do. I also hope that it works out. I would really love to play this mod.

It all comes down to communication with the fans. The other day, Dyson noted that he was having a hard drive problem that needed to be looked at. He fixed it and continued work. The point is that anybody who reads these forums can get a basic idea of what is going on with the Manhattan Mod because the team keeps us informed. On the flip side, we all have no idea what is going on with the original NY mod. So we speculate, etc. Now that I know about a mapping issue, I am much more sympathetic to their cause. Us being informed is a good thing for a couple of reasons. First, some of the more technical guys here can offer help with solving a problem. Second, it informs members here that there are delays, and to give the mod creators some space. It creates an all around feeling of good will towards the mod. I am not asking for pictures, videos, etc. I am stating my opinion that if you were a bit more informative with what you were doing and where you were at, you would recieve a lot more help and encouragement. However, this is just my opinion.......

I see your point, and therefore it's good there is different mods that you can play.

But when I say that we start from scratch, with only the graphics engine taken into our mod, I do mean we start from scratch. So far every mod have been built up on the base Em4, and that is what differs our mod from others. We don't just say "Oh, well. There might be a little mistake on the engine but no-one will notice", because we want it to be completely perfect and we will make sure everything is completely as it should be. About the base Em4, we're creating a complete new base. A complete new one, and that's what takes so much time. This is really semi-game-developing on a very high level, since the really entire base will be changed.

I as said, do see your point. But the thing is, we work 99,9% realism, since 100% is never possible in a game. We want everything from the real life put in, hell, we even want the dust on the pavement located where it is in real life too. That's why, the stuff takes so damn long, and that's why you might get the impression it's not coming out. But literally dragging NYC into a video game is a really big task.

To quickly explain the game base thing:

Pretty much every mod out there is only visually. Few mods have some new scripts implanted into the huge Em4 game base, which sure is effective, but not large in the scale of the Em4 base. Recreating this entire thing can most easily be translated this way; The mod will be a new game, with Em4 graphics. Yep, that's probably the best cover.

The reason we don't give out an (in our eyes) unfinished version is because we are all perfectionists, and we all want this to be just as it should be.

We want the damn halligan tool to be used. We want the damn hoses to be in system. We want the damn ladders to be used, and we want some god damn realism.

Now, using the same expression again, most mods have the following: Very often big accidents, 5 calls at the same time, responsetime on less than a minute and it keeps going that way. We feel it even more fun ti fight a trash can fire realistically than fighting a power plant fire with cannons on the roof.

I hope you get the point.

The best regards from here.

I understand. If you were to search my posts, you would find that I am constantly asking for more realism. I personally applaud what you guys are doing. If I had the skills, I would have done the same thing, but in parts. I think this is where you and I differ. You guys want to deliver a perfect finished product. I would have delivered such a mod in parts. Maybe three or four versions with some nice big updates and some fresh new things. I personally like the Manhattan Mod team's approach. Pictures, videos, vague timetables, but specific enough that people aren't constantly harassing them about release dates (to my knowledge). The NY Mod team is doing some of the same, but updating less. This is cool. They told us that it would be six months or longer, a few months back. Again, nobody is pestering them for release dates in the forum. We will wait for this mod. What else can we do? I'm sure that we will enjoy it greatly when it comes out. I personally, wish we could get more updates. That would keep this game on everyone's radar instead of on the back burner. A little bit of good will goes a long way........

It's your mod, and you are entitled to build it your way. However, you can't blame the fanbase for feeling like we will never see it. Dyson and the NY mod guys have produced playable versions of NY maps that are great. Both teams are coming out with nice new maps that will make us all very happy. They started smaller, built on from there, but most importantly they have given us something to play. Your mod may be the greatest thing since sliced bread. But what you don't understand is that we just want to play the game. The other teams have released a lot of info about where they are going, and have built up a lot of good will with the fans. We are pulling for them to be great. We are pulling for you guys as well. You could biuld some good will by not trying to be perfect, and releasing a playable version. In one or two years it may be too late....

We you still have your new warnings and a post preview for a little while.

I'm the bold

I understand.

I really like your Idea of making things not to easy.

But there are 2 ways to do it. One is like to just dont add easy things like the AutoArest and the other is realism.

I preffer realism. As far as I know, almost every NYPD copcar has a traffic advisor. Also Cops can call for EMS or Fire offcause.

That wont make the game too easy but gives it a much better handling and realism.

If you take a look in the hard modded german Winterberg mod, you can see that its full of scripts wich makes things handy/realistic. Like that EMS personell auto treat patients or you dont have to click the command that they will drive to the hospital ect.

But the mod is still pretty hard since you have to do other things that time, like find a hydrant for your firetruck otherwise the watertank gets empty ect. Or Firefighters need to get there scuba or will collapse.

I think thats the way to do it, making a game realistic, giving it a nice handling + not making it easy.

Thats just my opinion.

Its a great mod and I cant wait for updates.

Good post man. There are a lot of unspectacular things which complicate the job of firefighting. Water supply, building access, high occupancy, traffic, etc. If done realistically, these can make the game much harder than some of the original features. How different would fires be if you had to find a plug for every engine that is flowing water? How about needing to make rescues using aerial ladders on narrow city streets?

I like choices too. I would never choose to play the police side of things. I do it because I have to. Therefore, for me, the autochase script was great. Having a choice to hook up to hydrants, auto chase and arrest is a great middle ground IMO.

That's pretty sweet man!

Great work guys! Can't wait to play it!

Tower Ladder next on the hit list

whilst researching photos came across a strange sight, anyone ideas what this is...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dansflickpics/5457066949/sizes/l/in/photostream/

It's ladder 1 taken in June 11 I think, some kind of replacement truck?

It looks like they are using a reserve truck. Pretty common thing.

The Primary units are all available, to request a replacement engine (in case of needing to replace an enigne) might then add a generic engine (so you can have multiple on the map in case of big fires) if that makes sense?

Sounds good!

Hey guys, great updates. I was wondering abut the limited engines thing and how that is going to work. If I understand correctly, we will have Engines 6,7,9,10. Ladders 6, 10. Tower Ladder 1, Squad 18, and Rescue 1 as our primary units. Are you guys saying that if I need or want a second tower ladder that it won't be available, or that it will be priced very high so that I might not be able to afford one? Or are you saying that the price is only going to be high to buy and replace a damaged unit. I can say that I have never used all of my ff equipment on one call during free play, but I have been forced to call for more help while playing on hard during an earthquake or an arson spree. FDNY has tons of equipment. Will the game reflect this?

Looking good! Can't way to play the updated version! Some ideas for realism? How about double parked delivery trucks on some of the tight streets? Large buildings with very limited FD access, like the Grand St. 7th Alarm which was very hard to access to rear. Fire escapes are always good too.

New Goodie:

This will make the fireboat more realistic, but also more powerful by alot. To keep game balance, it only has 3 cannons and it will be more expensive to purchase.

Hop

That's pretty sweet man!

Nice looking updates.

Looks great!

He is referring to the NY Modification. No it's not a hoax, it's legit... We've closed it a hundred times before... We're closing it this time after the creator messaged me asking to close it, because quite frankly, he, as well as most of the staff of this site, are getting pretty sick of this constant bullsh*t you guys have been posting in that topic, which most of it isn't needed at all, such as this is never gonna come out, when is it coming out, will you have this feature you've confirmed, will you explain something you said you won't explain until release?

He is tired of hearing a vast majority of the members of this site complaining, badgering and just being annoying, so he requested that we close the topic for a while, while he works on the mod, does some personal stuff, and gets back into the regular routine of life...

Oh, and since I'm a man of my word, Jakethejake, you've just gotten yourself a +1 warning.. Anyone else wishing to continue about the mod in this topic will also receive one, maybe two or three, for ignoring this post... This is to talk about New York things, not the New York mod.. Do I make myself clear? Good, lets all return to topic now.

Whatever bro give me whatever warning you want..............I run into burning buildings for a living, You aren't gonna hurt me. We have waited an awefully long time. for nothing...........I have been on their side for a long time, but sometimes you just have to deliver. These guys haven't. Anyone can post a couple of years worth of apparatus photos, and half truths. My young son thinks that this mod wont come out. What does that tell you guys? These guys have gotten a very wide berth because they are promising somtehing that we all want. They have delivered nothing. Ban me if you must....... But guys like Dyson and others who have actually delivered should riot. These guys have given us absolutely nothing! No games, no skins, no apparatus, nothing!

I have been a good upstanding member of this community for a bit. You guys have a real problem here. I am just the guy who is willing to call it as I see it. Tommorrow, I will announce my new mod........I'll throw up some photos, and give you basically nothing for two years......but you will treat me as a God..............Ridiculous!............

Well, I can officially say that we have all been victims of a nice hoax...........

FFW TUT Said:

"Due to some private things i let close this topic for a time. this doesnt mean we stop developing... just cant take discussions like the last one anymore, going on my nerves... no offense but there are some more important facts i have to deal with atm. so i think its the best for all atm to close this topic until i feel better again. we just stop public information for the time the topic is closed!"

First, I hope all is well.

Secondly, this is atypical of the firefighting brotherhood.

You guys set out to make a game about a department and a job that is loved. You set out to bring realism and fun and dignity to this mod. I have no idea whether you do this job for real, but your intentions have earned you many friends. Here in the States, firefighters take up for each other. We understand the risks,and consequences of our beloved job. My issue is not with your intent. My issue is that you may not understand just how many friends you may have garnered due to this project. Step back, take a breath, and communicate with us what you need. Not just in terms of the game, but in life. We will help you.

You guys are so intent on doing this alone. That's not how we operate

The original topic was created in 2008, then after 200 odd pages of spam posts, we decided to give them another cahnce at a topic, close their old one, start a better one, and we're back here... We went through the first couple pages, and deleted every post that didn't belong to FFW TUT so that the first page was all reserved for the team.

This mod has gone through three diffent versions before being released. Originally, this was just another plain old vehicle mod, but after 3 years, it's started the game almost again. Yeah, they'll have a lot of cool things added, but will it make the game super crazy nuts interesting? Probably not, as with everything (with exception of Deus Ex) you'll get bored of it eventually.

Who knows, this may just be a psychology project, to see how long people will wait for something they don't know anything about, and how many stupid empty posts can be repeated, when the actual team only ever answers once in a blue moon or so.

Actually, no I'm the only one evil enough to do that

I think that this has crossed a lot of minds. I think that many here agree that this will be a fun mod, but it is not a life changing event. Hell, as much as I played Modern Warfare 2, I don't play it anymore. I absolutely love that game. Could this whole thing be a psy-op? Sure. I also visit less and less, hoping for the elusive media package, a release date, or some nice nugget of information. It never comes, so.......

I realize that the team has lives of their own, but right now, we aren't getting any new info at all. There is not really enough to keep this game on many people's radar. I know that this is their game and they release info on their timetable, but I, apparently like many others, am doubting that we will see a public release of this mod. They said that mapping had begun, and the media package had begun, months ago, then very little since. I would be trying to keep my peeps excited about what I was doing and keep the mod on the forefront of everyone's mind. That's how I operate. Hopefully, I am wrong, and they are just trying to perfect things. I just get the sense that many here are starting to lose interest......

dont worry... we dont include any ideas of others regardless of whether they say "they could" or "they have to"... we follow our own ideas because this mod is the product of us, so just we decide what is in and what not

we dont follow other people, we do the stuff by ourselves... and i think when somebody knows what is possible or impossible with this stupid game then we are it just based on lot of experience

Hey FFW TUT, I was wondering how the media package is coming along? Anything new to share?

Hate to say it but european mods > american mods. ; )

I'll give you that. This game has been made by Europeans who have put their best foot forward building their home mods. Of course they will be better. My point is not that the European Mods aren't good. They are excellent. But as an American, we do things totally differently. The LA Mod is fun. But it doesn't represent what we in the northeast do.

The game that will grab my attention will blend elements of this game with elements of some of the things that we do. Fires produce smoke. Fires spread dimensionally. Weather affects what we do. Sometimes you have to find the fire. Sometimes you pull up, and people are hanging out the windows. Sometimes you hit the fire with a large stream, and it just laughs at you. Sometimes the fire building collapses. Sometimes there are water supply issues. There are a lot of elements that could be added to this game to make it more realistic and fun. As it stands right now, it is still very fun. But there is a reason why the hundreds of firefighters whom I know aren't playing this game. I believe that it is the same reason that I seem to see fewer people posting. Realism and great strategy count, and we want to play our home cities, not yours.

The North American firefighting community is huge. Not all are gamers, but a lot are. I have no idea how the sales of this series have been, but I can tell you that if someone was to take some of my ideas and add them to what this game is now, it would do very well. Chicago, DC, Philly, San Francisco could all be done as well. I like what I am hearing out of the NY mod, but who knows if and when we will see it. They are really the only ones who have me wanting to keep playing this game. I recognize that this is done in people's spare time, as a hobby. I just think that perhaps the best game would be one that is made for a target audience for profit rather than as a hobby.

Here's my idea. This is what I would do if I had the skills. A Metro-Boston firefighting mod. I say Metro-Boston, because I would have different maps. Boston, Chelsea, Somerville, Cambridge, Lynn, etc. I would build it based on Mass Metrofire's mutual aid plan. Why this area? It is a very densely populated area. They have some unique construction that has led to some huge fires over the years. I like their mutual aid style, and they have some diverse response areas.

The only downfall of the "city" modifications, is that they are not very diverse. For instance rotating maps would keep the game play interesting. A waterfront map, a forest map, a high rise district map, a suburban map, an industrial map, etc.

I really like a lot of the concepts of what the NY mod team has said that they are doing. I like real first due areas, with real companies responding on the extra alarms. I like the fact that the next due company may not be available, and that another company will have to replace them. It adds a certain scope to the game. Those of us who have been to large fires and who have seen a company or two from really far away know that it gives a certain depth to how large the situation really is.

Something like this would take a huge amount of time and effort, and I get that people are doing this on their own time. Personally, I think that this very series may be dead. I don't say that with any malice. It has just run its course. I find myself playing less and less. New European mods just don't get me excited. No offense, but I am an American firefighter from the Northeast. Those tactics, apparatus, and maps get me excited. Large, quick moving fires in densely populated areas. High winds, frame construction. Things that cause me to think and use tactics. Large mill buildings that are threatening to spread to the surrounding neighborhoods. Multiple alarms needed. Waiting on help. Frozen hydrants. Narrow streets hindering apparatus positioning. These are the realities of doing the job in this part of the country. Certainly, the NY Mod may offer a lot of these things. We'll just have to wait and see. Hopefully, it is as fun to play as it sounds.

Wow, you dudes must play a totally different style than I do. I would never have time to wind the Q up! I am waaay too busy dispatching my units and tying up loose ends from the other incidents to ever use the Q manually. I am glad that we will be dealing with only one incident at a time. Today I had an arsonist that my cops couldn't capture, an exploded gas pipe, and then was hit with an earthquake. It was insane! And not really too much fun. Granted, I was playing on hard, but you guys get the idea......

I am hoping for a little more sanity with this mod. It seems like we will be getting inside buildings more, and they have said that the map will be smaller, but I am wondering how I am gonna manage all the firefighters and equipment in this game. In the LA Mod there are no hydrants to hook up to, you hit rapid deploy and instant water. Nobody gets tired, nobody runs out of air, and for the most part, nobody is inside a building. A 10-75 will get me roughly 54 people (4 Engines, 3 trucks, 1 Rescue Co, 1 Squad Co., 2 Battallion Chiefs). That is a lot of people for one person to have to manage. I am very interested to see how they pull this off. As for the sirens? I'd be happy with automatic, like we have now.

I'm looking forward to playing this mod. I'm hoping that that will be sooner rather than later.......

Will we be able to hook up a ladder pipe?

I believe that FDNY has basically done away with hooking a ladder pipe to an aerial ladder. They have a ton of 75' and 95' tower ladders. When they need to flow from above, they bring in the towers. I have seen fires where they have backed a straight stick out of the block so that the tower ladder could get into position. I am not sure if the game will represent this though.

Thanks for your hard work!

thats what she said^^^ lol but yea cant wait to actually find out all of these mysteries and be blown away. I hope that the silence from the team means the media package and mod are almost done

I was hoping the same thing. My post was deleted for being off topic. Go figure!